Nuance with Emeric McCleary

How can curiosity and nuanced listening enhance meaningful conversations, particularly in the context of podcasting?

A podcaster reveals how embracing curiosity and patience leads to unexpected and powerful storytelling.

The beauty of finding nuance is that it trains you to be a better listener, and it helps—at least it helps me—because I’m just infinitely curious. If you’re infinitely curious, you’re probably going to ask questions, or let people talk or give you more information, or again— looking for that gold nugget.

~ Emeric McCleary (5:04)

This conversation explores the value of nuanced listening and Emeric’s strategies for fostering meaningful conversations on his podcast. It begins with a discussion of the word “nuance” and its role in revealing subtle distinctions and insights within human interactions. He explains his process of recording long-form conversations, sometimes spanning hours, as a method to uncover the “golden moments” of authenticity and depth that arise over time. His podcast aims to provide hope and humor for widowed individuals, often featuring irreverent and candid topics that encourage openness and connection.

The conversation also addresses how curiosity plays a central role in crafting engaging episodes. Emeric reflects on how letting go of control and allowing guests to “unfold their stories” leads to unexpected discoveries. He shares his vetting process for guests, emphasizing the importance of selecting individuals who can engage deeply and authentically. Key influences like Joe Rogan’s interviewing techniques and resources such as “Never Split the Difference” are mentioned as tools for improving listening skills and uncovering deeper layers in conversations.

Takeaways

Curiosity as a foundation — Curiosity drives meaningful exchanges and trains listeners to explore subtle distinctions.

Long-form conversations — Recording sessions lasting several hours often reveal unexpected and authentic moments.

Vetting guests — Careful pre-screening ensures that potential guests can engage deeply and resonate with the podcast’s tone.

Nuance in podcasting — Allowing guests to unfold their stories fosters authenticity and richer discussions.

Listening as a skill — Effective listening enhances empathy, communication, and the ability to find hidden insights.

Resources

My Spouse Died Too

My Spouse Died Too podcast — Emeric’s podcast gives hope, so you can heal, find love again, and give grief the middle finger.

Never Split the Difference — Chris Voss’s book teaching negotiation and listening techniques to uncover unknown unknowns.

Joe Rogan Podcast — Referenced as an example of effective interviewing and curiosity-driven conversation.

Freakonomics Radio — Mentioned as a resource for learning engaging questioning techniques.

(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)

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Embracing all the moments

I’m starting to see the unifying principle behind all the philosophies that really appeal to me (e.g. Buddhism, Stoicism, Arnold Schwarzenegger). They view all of life’s moments as having equal value, at least where it counts, and what counts is your skill in embracing the moments that make up your life.

It’s a genius idea, possibly the smartest thing human beings ever came up with. Embracing all moments as a rule transforms every day into precisely what you’re looking for: an interesting variety of experiences, every one of which offers you what you value, regardless of what happens in particular.

~ David Cain from, When All Moments Have Equal Value

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In addition to the sources listed by Cain, I’d add Jerzey Gregorek.

To me, this is all about mindfulness. Practicing being aware of each moment is a terrific way to swim in the joy of life. All the struggle and worry comes from my setting expectations—reasonable or otherwise makes no difference—which are always frustrated by the vast complexity of reality.

I’m fond of the Chinese proverb: “If things are going badly, relax, they won’t last. If things are going well, relax, they won’t last.” It’s of course super-helpful to be reminded to relax. But it’s far more helpful to be reminded that there’s really no difference between the “going badly” and “going well” parts, which brings me again to Cain’s point.

Choose what at first appears to be the harder path, because it is—as you soon discover—actually the easier path.

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Possibilities with David Nebinski

What is the role of podcasting in creating possibilities for connection, transformation, and personal growth?

A single email or podcast episode can spark life-changing connections and opportunities.

You don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t know if there’s going to be a chance to talk to somebody. […] There is a big emphasis on possibility right? You are trying to reach out to somebody to have a conversation, and that space between an idea, to then having an incredible conversation, is full of possibility, full of uncertainty, full of potential.

~ David Nebinski (1:29)

This conversation examines the intersection of podcasting, creativity, and possibility. It begins with the idea that podcasting is more than conversations—it’s an exploration of potential. David reflects on how podcasts can create unique connections, foster trust, and spark transformative experiences. Possibility, in this context, is framed as the unpredictable and magical space between starting an idea and creating something meaningful.

The discussion also touches on practical and creative aspects of podcasting. Topics include strategies for sustaining creativity, managing constraints, and experimenting with formats such as roundtables, curated episodes, and thematic compilations. David emphasizes the importance of consistency, passion, and community support while highlighting how the medium inspires personal growth and strengthens connections with others.

Takeaways

The power of possibility — Podcasting provides a space for unexpected and transformative opportunities.

Connection and trust — Conversations in podcasting foster unique bonds that differ from ordinary interactions.

Creative experimentation — Exploring different formats keeps podcasting fresh and engaging.

Consistency and passion — Maintaining a regular schedule fuels the creative process and supports long-term growth.

Community and collaboration — Communities play a vital role in celebrating, supporting, and inspiring podcasters.

Sparking opportunities — A single email or introduction can open doors to significant relationships and collaborations.

The thrill of outreach — Reaching out to potential guests and reconnecting with old contacts energizes the podcasting process.

Resources

Portfolio Career Podcast — David’s podcast helping people build and grow their portfolio careers.

(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)

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Convince me

When one of the company said to him, “convince me that logic is useful,” he said, … Would you like me to demonstrate it to you? Then I must make use of a demonstrative argument? And how will you know, then, whether I am deceiving you with a sophism? And when the man remained silent, he said, … You see how you yourself admit that logic is necessary, since without it you cannot even determine whether it is necessary or not.

~ Epictetus

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Word words werds

It begins to look, more and more disturbingly, as if the gift of language is the single human trait that marks us all genetically, setting us apart from all the rest of life. Language is, like nest building or hive making, the universal and biologically specific activity of human beings. We engage in it communally, compulsively, and automatically. We cannot be human without it; if we were to be separated from it our minds would die, as surely as bees lost from the hive.

~ Lewis Thomas from, Lewis Thomas on our Social Nature and “Getting the Air Right”

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I’m going to guess you just spent some time trying to work out what I mean to convey through this assembly of: my title, that pull-quote, who might Thomas be, and that bit of vaguely familiar Latin. Interesting.

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Real progress

If progress is real despite our whining, it is not because we are born any healthier, better, or wiser than infants were in the past, but because we are born to a richer heritage, born on a higher level of that pedestal which the accumulation of knowledge and art raises as the ground and support of our being. The heritage rises, and man rises in proportion as he receives it.

~ Will and Ariel Durant from, Is Human Progress Real or An Illusion?

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So much is written and discussed about history: recording it, studying it, learning (or not) from it, does it repeat or rhyme, etc.. But why don’t more people talk about each of our personal histories? The most important thing— The thing I unequivocally must do, and must do first, is to take care of myself. (“Put on your own oxygen mask before attempting to assist others.”) I must put myself first. I must be the change I want to see in the world. Only if I am healthy, empowered, and vigrously prepared can I sally forth to do good things.

Certainly, I can work on myself by studying humanity’s history for lessons. You know what works better? Studying my history, because there are so many questions I can usefully ask of myself. What couldn’t I accomplish if I spent decades studying my own history and studying humanity’s?

That would be real progress.

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Straight-up magic

The aim of fusion research is to develop a climate- and environmentally-friendly power plant. Similar to the sun, it is to generate energy from the fusion of atomic nuclei. Because the fusion fire only ignites at temperatures above 100 million degrees, the fuel—a low-density hydrogen plasma—must not come into contact with cold vessel walls. Held by magnetic fields, it floats almost contact-free inside a vacuum chamber.

~ Max Planck Society, from The Wendelstein 7-X concept proves its efficiency

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I’ve been following the phys.org syndication feed for, like 20 years. It kicks out a lot of posts. (About 840 each month in fact. Which I can tell by looking in my account at feedbin.com.) I’ve been watching from afar for decades as we humans try to figure out nuclear fusion.

The sun fuses light elements—Hydrogen mostly—creating slightly heavier elements—Helium mostly. Our bombs and nuclear reactors go in the other direction: They take very rare, very heavy elements—like Uranium-238 which is even more rare than it’s very rare “normal” Uranium that has 235 protons and neutrons in its nucleus—and break them apart releasing an enormous amount of energy. But breaking them apart is fairly easy. Uranium is such a big fat nucleus that it breaks apart on its own. (That’s what Radon gas comes from in your house.) Fission is pretty easy.

Fusion on the other hand is insanely difficult. You have to push two protons very close together before they decide to stick together. But when they do stick you get energy out. Hydrogen only has one proton in it’s nucleus, and the center of the sun is literally a churning soup of protons and free-roaming electrons. Gravity squeezes it more and more. Millions of degrees. Inconceivable pressures. The material is so dense, so opaque, that the light produced by the little Heliums getting created bounces around inside so much, it helps balance the gravitational crushing. In fact, the light that leaves the sun is only a tiny fraction of the energy being generated. Most of it just fights gravity off. Yes, the solar energy reaching Earth is a tiny fraction, of a tiny fraction of the total energy the sun produces.

Yeah. We humans have figured out how to do that. In fact, we have two very different engineering solutions—the “tokomak” and the “Wendelstein 7-X”. They work. We can put cheap, abundant, harmless Hydrogen in and it creates Helium. Yes, with a net outflow of energy. Years ago, we could do it for fractions of a second, but it consumed more energy than we got back out. But now, today, these two devices literally consume Hydrogen and spit out Helium. Pure, magic. You get so much energy out from Fusion, it’d be trivial to split good old water apart… push that little Oxygen in H2O off using electrolosys and send the Oxygen elsewhere. (It has lots of applications.)

Ever see some sci-fi movie where the people find alien technology? They’re all like, “ooooooh, look at this suitcase sized power supply that runs the whole ship” and “how’s that work” and “alien science.”

Yeah. That shit up top there in that phys.org article. BAM! Human science. Pure magic.

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The rational soul

Characteristics of the rational soul: Self-perception, self-examination, and the power to make of itself whatever it wants. … It surveys the world and the empty space around it, and the way it’s put together. It delves into the endlessness of time to extend its grasp and comprehension of the periodic births and rebirths that the world goes through. It knows that those who came after us will see nothing different, that those who came before us saw no more than we do, and that anyone with forty years behind him and eyes in his head has seen both past and future—both alike.

~ Marcus Aurelius

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Who. What. When.

An embarrassment of riches swamps me. I have so arranged things that everywhere I turn I find inspiring ideas, growth-catalyzing goals, and outlandish opportunities.

This morning I tenderly cracked open a new-to-me book, (Community: The Structure of Belonging by P Block, 2nd ed., 2018,) and inserted a bright blue, ribbon bookmark. I turned past the first page, then past the second page, and read the dedication:

To Maggie — In appreciation for your commitment, intelligence, love, and integrity that make what I do possible. You are a placeholder for all who give their talents and love in support of others. Your question “Who will do what by when?” changes the world.

~ Peter Block, ibid.

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I have never had that particular formulation in mind. But I’ve had that sentiment as a driving force for decades. Thank you “Maggie” and Peter Block for making something so long fuzzy for me, perfectly clear.

Yes, indeed! Who will do what by when?

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Thank you, Miss Merrill

Last weekend, while helping friends pack-house, I found this book:

Wait! Don’t do the math on a book from 1907, and a college student taking Rhetoric in 1924. :)

Instead of packing it, I borrowed the book wondering if this James Sears Baldwin might just be the Baldwin. This is a dry book. But it’s also teaching me a ton about writing. The author hasn’t cracked even the slightest smile in the first 37 pages of this 400+ page tome. But the Baldwin quote I’d love to find within, might just be the sort of pithy thing this author would drop near the end.

Yes, I am willing to read a 400+ page tome on the off chance that I find the quote and get the once-in-a-lifetime thrill of finding an original attribution for a well-known quote. I digress.

By page 30, I had seen a whole bunch these little diagonal marks, but hadn’t really figured out what she was trying to imply.

Then it hit me. Quotes! It’s a diagonal line with a quote on the diagonal line. She’s delineating quotations. I’m guessing that she must have written a paper—who’d expect that in a Rhetoric class, right?—and I bet she came back through and marked the quotation sections. At the same instant that I figured it out, my up-to-then habit of drawing a full line across the page, (often a long line, then up or down a line, and then finish going across, to “cut” in the middle of a line,) seemed dumb.

Thank you Miss Merrill. This looks just way cooler:

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Futurism with Karena de Souza

How can parents and younger generations better prepare for an uncertain future shaped by technology, education, and climate change?

A personal journey reveals the link between decision-making and courageous parenting.

I realized that the future that I thought—as a parent, who grew up as somebody else’s child—I was parenting as I was parented, not as my intellect was telling me I should parent.

~ Karena de Souza (8:23)

This conversation explores the intersection of futurism, parenting, and the challenges of preparing for an unpredictable world. Karena discusses her journey into podcasting and book writing, driven by a desire to engage younger generations and their parents in critical discussions about technology, education, and societal shifts. She emphasizes the importance of equipping children with the skills and mindset needed to thrive in a future dominated by uncertainty and rapid change.

Key themes include the evolving nature of work and the need for parents to adapt their approaches to align with new realities. Karena shares her insights into how decision-making skills can be cultivated and applied, using anecdotes from her life and travels. Climate change is highlighted as a significant focus, with an emphasis on fostering hope and resilience while addressing the challenges it presents to future generations.

Takeaways

Futurism as a mindset — Imagining both positive and negative scenarios to prepare for an uncertain future.

Parenting challenges — Encouraging parents to reconsider traditional advice to better align with technological and societal changes.

Generational shifts — Exploring how Generation Z’s unique position as digital natives influences their approach to work and life.

Decision-making skills — Using real-life examples to illustrate how structured decision-making can improve adaptability.

Climate change and hope — Addressing the intersection of environmental issues and the future of work while fostering optimism.

Effective communication — Tailoring messages for diverse audiences, such as parents and younger generations.

Bookwriting journey — Sharing the creative process of connecting futurist themes with personal experiences.

Resources

Karena de Souza on LinkedIn

Contours of Courageous Parenting — Karena’s book focused on helping parents equip their children with skills to navigate an uncertain future.

Akimbo Podcasting Fellowship — A program that introduces participants to the world of podcasting.

Rules for Radicals — A book by Saul Alinsky mentioned in the discussion for its insights into effecting change.

Generational Z Research — Research on the unique traits and challenges facing Generation Z.

Future of Work Studies — Studies examining how technology and societal changes shape work environments.

(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)

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Where to file a Thorn?

Dreams come true. You just have to be willing to work for them.

~ Annie Mist Þórisdóttir

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Apparently, these two-fer posts aren’t as rare as I thought.

Without thinking, as I transcribed that quote, I used their preferred way of writing their name—at least, that’s how they are attributed in the source I had at hand. (Every web site I find romanizes it to Thorisdottir, offensively—in my opinion—sterilizing the family name to simple roman letters.) I was feeling all proud about even being able to write that character.

And then I went to file the quote in the slipbox. Uh… “Houston, we have a problem here.”

Step one: What is it? It’s a Thorn. Wikipedia helpfully, (that’s sarcasm,) explains:

[…] in modern Icelandic, it is pronounced as a laminalvoiceless alveolar non-sibilant fricative [θ̠],[1][2] similar to th as in the English word thick, or a (usually apicalvoiced alveolar non-sibilant fricative [ð̠],[1][2] similar to th as in the English word the. Modern Icelandic usage generally excludes the latter, which is instead represented with the letter ðæt ⟨Ð, ð⟩; however, [ð̠] may occur as an allophone of /θ̠/, and written ⟨þ⟩, when it appears in an unstressed pronoun or adverb after a voiced sound.[3]

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)

I didn’t quote the part where they say, it’s not actually related to the letter P, which we get from Greek.

Well it looks like a P. That suggests filing this person under “PO”.

Iceland is the only place that has not, long ago, replaced it with “th”, and it’s pronounced like “th”ick. So I’m going to treat it like “TH,” and then Þórisdóttir gets filed under “TO”. (Wait, why not under, “TH”. Because my index of people is arranged by first-letter, plus next-vowel—not by the first two letters.)

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Leadership with Anette Carlisle

How has podcasting impacted Anette Carlisle’s life, goals, and creative journey?

Creative fulfillment emerges as a significant benefit of building a body of podcasting work.

It’s been a way to share some really relevant information around the issues happening right now you know not just in Texas or Amarillo. But across the nation when it was important to do that.

~ Anette Carlisle (1:36)

The conversation explores the transformative power of podcasting in the speaker’s life, emphasizing its role as a creative outlet and a platform for sharing meaningful stories. Topics include the logistical and emotional shifts caused by the pandemic, leading to a more focused approach to podcasting. Anette discusses the transition from in-person interviews to remote ones and highlights the adaptability needed to address contemporary issues effectively through the medium.

The dialogue also addresses Anette’s evolution in communication styles, transitioning from data-heavy presentations to more engaging narrative storytelling. Insights into goal setting and creative fulfillment emerge as central themes, with reflections on how podcasting has influenced personal and professional growth. She values the permanence of podcast episodes as a body of work and appreciates the opportunity to engage in meaningful conversations that align with their broader goals.

Takeaways

Podcasting as a creative outlet — It fulfills creative needs and provides a sense of pride in building a body of work.

Adaptability in podcasting — The pandemic brought shifts in interview methods and focus, emphasizing flexibility.

Value of storytelling — Narrative storytelling becomes a central skill, moving away from data-driven methods.

Impact on personal growth — Podcasting encourages reflection, goal setting, and professional development.

Connection through podcasting — The medium allows for meaningful sharing of community stories and knowledge.

Resources

Annette on Education podcast — A podcast focused on education and related issues, hosted by Annette.

Podcasting Fellowship — A program that supports podcasters in their creative and technical journeys.

Seth Godin’s blog — Inspiration for creating impactful projects, mentioned as a key influence.

Zencastr — A remote recording tool used for high-quality podcast interviews.

(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)

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Vitality

Brett McKay: But how can men maintain that vitality, even when they have those responsibilities they have at home?

Vic Verdier: I personally use two strategies, if you want. The first one is very easy. It’s to read books, books and biographies, novels, books of adventures, books of people taking risk. I’m thinking Hemingway, Jack London, but also biographies of great leaders who took risks, and thanks to you, Brett, I learned more about Theodore Roosevelt and the way he reinvented himself all the time, challenging himself. And when you read those books, you realize that you don’t really have anything to lose by trying new things all the time. So that’s my first strategy, getting some inspiration from reading. The second strategy for me is to, on a weekly basis, to do some kind of self-assessment, meaning every week I’m thinking about my life and what I’m doing, and when I start to settle down, I know it’s time to do something different. Do you remember this movie, Groundhog Day, when Bill Murray is repeating the same day over and over again?

Brett McKay: Of course.

Vic Verdier: I think… If I live twice the same day, somehow I wasted one day. So I try to have some diversity in my life, and every time I think that I fall into some kind of routine, I know I have to explore something else or go somewhere else or do… Take another course or learn some new skills.

~ From How to Stay Physically Fit As You Get Older | Art of Manliness

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This wide-ranging conversation with Verdier touches on everything from his military and deep diving careers, to Parkour, MoveNat and general ways to stay fit and healthy. Worth a listen, and doubly-so if you’re a dude over 40. (Or know one.)

There’s an embedded player on that page, or find episode 704 of The Art of Manliness podcast, How to Keep Your Edge as You Get Older.

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Intention with Yolande Conradie

How does transforming a face-to-face course into an audio and digital format affect the teaching process, and what lessons arise from that experience?

Shifting to virtual teaching reveals how technology and podcast-like approaches can deeply connect with students.

I think it’s interesting. [I] try and think now of where do I get that energy from, when I come and sit in front of microphone or video. But I think, from years of face-to-face lecturing, and I’ve learned to almost fetch that from somewhere inside before I start.

~ Yolande Conradie (8:46)

The conversation explores the process of transforming traditional face-to-face teaching into a fully digital and audio-based format during the lockdown period. One significant focus is the effort required to adapt classroom exercises for online learning while ensuring engagement and energy remain high. Yolande shares her discovery of unexpectedly manageable aspects, like working with green screens and layered videos, alongside the technical challenges of ensuring high-quality audio.

Yolande also reflects on the importance of delivering content with energy and intentionality, even when speaking to an unseen audience. Years of face-to-face lecturing have helped her prepare mentally to connect with virtual learners effectively. Additionally, the discussion touches on how her listening habits for podcasts—particularly those with innovative soundscapes and storytelling—have influenced her approach to teaching and audio content creation.

Takeaways

Transforming teaching formats — She adapts a face-to-face leadership course into an audio and video-based digital format.

Energy in virtual teaching — Bringing intentional energy to online lectures helps maintain a connection with students.

Student engagement — Feedback highlights the importance of making audio and video content personal and relatable.

Adapting content — Exercises and interactions need to be restructured creatively for a virtual environment.

Podcast inspiration — Listening to diverse podcasts enhances her understanding of sound design and engagement techniques.

Immediate group dynamics — Each group’s unique needs influence how course material is presented in real-time.

Unexpected challenges — The digital shift brings hurdles, but some aspects, like video editing, turn out easier than expected.

Long-term impact — Lessons learned from online teaching will influence future education methods, even post-pandemic.

Resources

The BBC Word of Mouth Podcast — A podcast about language and its development.

True Crime Bullsh** — A meticulously researched true crime podcast.

Mind Tools L&D Podcast — A learning and development podcast covering professional skills.

BBC Discovery — A science podcast offering insights into discoveries worldwide.

The Christland Podcast — A podcast celebrated for its innovative use of sound and music.

(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)

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Forge on ahead

Why all this guesswork? You can see what needs to be done. If you can see the road, follow it. Cheerfully, without turning back. If not, hold up and get the best advice you can. If anything gets in the way, forge on ahead, making good use of what you have on hand, sticking to what seems right. (The best goal to achieve, and the one we fall short of when we fail.)

~ Marcus Aurelius

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