What is this little, agile, precious fire, this fluttering motion which we call the mind?
~ Prior
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Precious →
How do you end? →
How can you effectively and gracefully end a conversation while maintaining its value and mutual appreciation?
Understand the balance between leaving a conversation fulfilled and seeking more.
Craig and Jesse discuss the complexities of ending conversations, beginning with the idea that most conversations naturally conclude due to external factors like time constraints. Craig notes that in many casual interactions, such as those at events or in public spaces, the end is often dictated by circumstances rather than a conscious decision.
I know I didn’t even try to get everything [from a conversation] because I know I can’t get everything. So it’s somehow finding a balance between: “Okay, my cup is full. I should really move away and just revel in what I have.” Finding a balance between that, and just going to the well until the cup comes up empty. I think that’s probably the compass for how to find a good ending.
~ Craig Constantine (4:25)
They explore the notion that it can be beneficial to end conversations while they are still engaging, rather than waiting until all topics are exhausted. Craig shares his experiences from recording podcasts, where he finds it challenging to end on a high note, emphasizing the importance of planning and strategies for graceful conclusions.
We’re here looking for ways to make conversation more alive […]. I’ve adopted this strategy of, stop eating when I want to eat a little bit more. stop talking when I want to talk a little bit more. Stop training, moving around and exercising when I want to move a little bit more. So that I’m actually left in the wanting of it […]
~ Jesse Danger (5:13)
They also touch on the distinction between enjoyable and uncomfortable conversations. Jesse brings up the idea of stopping activities, such as talking or training, while still wanting more, to maintain a sense of aliveness and enthusiasm. The conversation shifts to practical strategies for ending conversations, including honesty about one’s need to leave and expressing appreciation for the interaction.
Jesse references Peter Block’s concept from the book “Community,” suggesting that when ending a conversation, participants can share what they gained from the interaction, fostering a sense of closure and mutual respect. This approach, they agree, can enhance the quality and impact of the conversation.
Takeaways
Ending conversations naturally — External factors often dictate the conclusion of casual interactions.
Ending on a high note — Beneficial to conclude conversations while they are still engaging.
Challenges in planned endings — Strategies and planning are crucial for graceful podcast conclusions.
Distinction between conversation types — Different approaches are needed for enjoyable and uncomfortable conversations.
Maintaining enthusiasm — Stopping activities while still wanting more helps preserve a sense of aliveness.
Practical strategies — Honesty about the need to leave and expressing appreciation can aid in ending conversations.
Concept of shared appreciation — Participants can share what they gained from the interaction to foster closure.
Spontaneity in conversation exits — Creative and spontaneous actions can make leaving a conversation smoother.
Balancing conversation engagement — Finding a balance between getting enough out of a conversation and not exhausting all topics.
Resources
Community by Peter Block — Discusses the importance of commitment and shared appreciation in group settings.
The concept of “single-serving friends” from the movie Fight Club — Refers to brief, context-specific interactions that end naturally.
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(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)
Strangeness →
This planet is genuinely strange. If we were all flown to the moon or to Mars and walked around on them, they wouldn’t seem that strange to us because there would be no yardsticks or anything to measure their strangeness by—they’re just vast museums of geology. Whereas the Earth is a deranged zoo, and somebody left the doors of the cages open. We have real strangeness because we can measure the degree to which things are or are not what they ought to be.
~ J. G. Ballard
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The balance of creativity →
[But ultimately acting makes you happy?] Yeah, I think. It is also about balance and finding the balance between the very cerebral part of your brain and the much more impulsive creativity that can come from chaos. So for me it is very much about that balance. The cerebral part of acting and the perfectionism can be exhausting, but the spontaneity can be very joyful. So it’s about managing these two sides of the experience. But yes it’s fun. I mean, there is no point in doing a movie if you’re not having fun.
~ Edward Norton from, Edward Norton – The Talks
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Norton isn’t talking at all about podcasting, but the dance of getting the balance right is equally applicable to any field.
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Start the clock →
I sometimes talk about “moving forward” as a default mindset I have. For example, all other things being equal, go to the airport and wait in the terminal, not a home. But in the end, it all boils down to my having deeply apprehended the lesson that the first 90% of everything is vastly easier than the second 90%. So I generally tend to do-now, rather than wait.
It struck me that this has become a kind of dividing line between success and failure within my team. Those who haven’t worked out haven’t been able to start the clock or return the ball very quickly. It’s not just my team—it’s a source of frustration that fills the letters and dispatches of just about every great general, admiral, and leader throughout history.
~ Ryan Holiday from, You Can’t Succeed In Life Without This Skill – RyanHoliday.net
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Unfortunately, in my case, do-now can become a millstone upon which one can be ground to oblivion.
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Discovery →
Part of the act of creating is in discovering your own kind. They are everywhere. But don’t look for them in the wrong places.
~ Henry Miller
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Auto-pilot →
Auto-pilot is great. Presuming of course that one understands all the things that one is handing over to be controlled by the auto-pilot. Auto-pilot as a tool for relieving us of drudgery and opportunities for mistakes? Yes, please. As a way to shirk our responsibility to lead our lives in a fulfilling way? Not so much.
The reality is, behaviour change is hard, and many people have not been taught effective goal-setting. For example, someone might know that they’re unhappy and have intentions to change, but they focus on something too broad (‘I want to be happy’) or on what they don’t want (‘I don’t want to be depressed’). An ill-defined focus can lead to trying many things without following through on any one thing.
~ Kiki Fehling from, How to stop living on auto-pilot | Psyche Guides
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I wasn’t taught effective goal-setting, but I’ve got it sorted now. I find it super-effective to not always set clear goals. Set instead, aspirations. Better yet, identify inspirations and regularly update them.
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Patience →
Be patient. You’ll know when it’s time for you to wake up and move ahead.
~ Ram Dass
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Consciousness →
Thinking about consciousness never fails to induce something like vertigo. I always have this sense of myself tipping over into some abyss. I simply, truly, have no idea at all about how consciousness works, or what my consciousness is. All the world is but a dream within a dream?
I think mindfulness’s true purpose is insight into the fundamental nature of consciousness. Mindfulness is good for producing fundamental insights into the nature of mind.
~ Sam Harris from, Sam Harris – The Talks
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That’s a wonderfully concise way to describe it.
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Books →
Books can be dangerous. The best ones should be labeled ‘This could change your life.’
~ Helen Exley
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