This might get personal

these nine principles for interviewing people about tender, personal, tough subjects are tactics that are helpful in any hard conversation. You want to be clear about your objectives for the conversation, to be prepared to listen closely and actively, to prepare the person you are talking to for a different, deeper sort of exchange. You need to respect the dignity of the person you’re talking with, and respect yourself enough to speak up when you disagree.

~ Anna Sale from, Treat an Interview Like a Relationship – Transom

Whether or not you’re doing recorded conversations with guests, there’s a bunch of great advice in that article. I’m particularly drawn to Sale’s point about how her interviews are enabled by the fact that she is creating a relationship with the guest. In any conversation, everything we do either builds up, or tears down, a relationship bit by bit.

In any conversation, it’s my experience that the more intentional I am, the better it goes. Part of that is intentional listening; listening primarily to understand. Another part is being mindful of the other person; deploying empathy and compassion. Another part is keeping sight of where you are headed, and also where it is not possible to get to; knowing what to stretch for and what to let pass is critical.

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Skepticism and cynicism

The result of this kind of influence is twofold: one is a skepticism and cynicism towards everything which is said or printed, while the other is a childish belief in anything that a person is told with authority. This combination of cynicism and naïveté is very typical of the modern individual. Its essential result is to discourage him from doing his own thinking and deciding.

~ Erich Fromm from, Erich Fromm on Why It’s Difficult to Think Originally and Critically in the Modern Age | The Art of Manliness

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Philosophical Skepticism, “is a family of philosophical views that question the possibility of knowledge.” (That’s a quote from the Wikipedia entry. If you want to go deeper, try the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy’s entry for Skepticism.)

As far as I understand it—your mileage may vary—Fromm, in that quote, wasn’t condemning philosophical skepticism. Rather, and I agree, let’s all condemn the little-s-skepticism; the naivete driven, disbelieve everything, skepticism that turns away from anything it doesn’t understand.

I prefer to turn towards just about anything I don’t yet understand. (See: “Oh. That’s interesting…”) I’m am frequently asking myself: “What is true, and how do I know it’s true?”

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Curiosity with Steve McCready

What role does curiosity play in creating engaging and authentic podcast interviews?

Following the energy in a conversation uncovers insights that even guests don’t anticipate.

One of the things that is very very true for the folks that I work with—the sensitive rebels as I call them—is they often feel isolated. They feel alone. They feel like some weirdo. There’s no one like them. And so when I have guests who have wrestled with some of the same things, who had some of the same struggles, some of the same thoughts, and I put that out there, I’m like ‘No, you’re not alone. Listen to these right here. Here’s all of this.’ It’s such an important thing for them to see.

~ Steve McCready (17:48)

The conversation focuses on the role of curiosity in podcasting and the importance of being present during interviews. Steve explains how curiosity serves as the driving force for exploring meaningful topics with guests. Instead of relying on a long list of prepared questions, the process involves following conversational “energy” and identifying interesting threads to explore further.

The discussion touches on the themes of coaching and podcasting as parallel practices. Both rely on creating space for people to share their stories and identify strengths they may not have recognized. Steve also discusses his perspective on “sensitive rebels,” individuals who often feel isolated but can connect through shared experiences highlighted in podcast conversations. The conversation emphasizes the balance between structure and spontaneity to create authentic and engaging dialogue.

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Controlling the mind

Controlling the mind doesn’t take one to freedom. Controlling the mind adds another link to one’s shackles.

~ Wu Hsin

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Forward. Backward. Preferred. Dis-preferred.

Like any good algebraist, he is made to think sometimes in a forward fashion and sometimes in reverse; and so he learns when to concentrate mostly on what he wants to happen and also when to concentrate mostly on avoiding what he does not want to happen.

~ Charlie Munger from, Stop Crashing Planes: Charlie Munger’s Six-Element System

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That item from a list of six elements, originally from the best pilot education program in existence, made me realize there’s this thing that I do. For me it’s such an intuitive, automatic thing, but it occurs to me to share it to make it explicit.

Let’s begin by thinking about planning and learning. (I’m done. You are now thinking about planning and learning. :) Next, we’ll trot out three magnificently useful, relative adverbs: how, when and why. Six sublime questions instantly appear:

How do I plan?
When do I plan?
Why do I plan?
How do I learn?
When do I learn?
Why do I learn?

I’ve certainly spent a lot of time thinking about those questions. For example, I’ve a bunch of blog posts about knowledge systems that came from thinking about, “how do I learn?” I could spend all my time thinking about those six questions. Exploring those questions, understanding myself, and learning in general, are fine projects to spend time on. But it’s tough to get started. Each of those questions is a deep, Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole.

What I want to share is how to use a different framework to flip the entire process over. I want to share my way of making progress on those fine projects without intentionally working on them. Things happen. Thoughts arise. (Your experience may be similar to mine?) The following framework will take anything—happenings or thoughts—and guide it into being deep work on those six questions.

Simply ask:

Forward or backward in time: Is the event in the future or past? Am I thinking about the future or past?

And…

Prefer or dis-prefer: Do I prefer or dis-prefer the event? Do I prefer or dis-prefer what I’m thinking?

For me, the act of examining something—an event, a thought—in the light of those questions, (forward/backward? preferred/dis-preferred?,) leads me to learning about one, and sometimes several, of those six, big questions.

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No too hot. Not too cold.

Self-motivated, self-starting individuals are incredibly motivated to find their weaknesses. It’s not far-fetched to say that some of us actually seek to make ourselves perfect — rational, calculating beings making the right type of decisions at just the right times. But we’ve learned from Star Trek; we don’t look to eliminate emotion either and turn ourselves into Mr. Spock. We want just the right amount of emotion in our lives.

~ Shane Parrish from, Tiny Gains. Massive Results.

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Here’s the two-pronged approach which has been working for me:

First, I remind myself to resist my innate urge to make things worse. Don’t add energy to emotions themselves, nor to things which cause emotions. Emotions are real. We are emotional beings. Emotions get their due. And no more. If things are going badly: relax, they won’t last. If things are going well: relax, they won’t last.

Second, I take note of—literally in my journal—things which cause me to be emotional. It turns out that sometimes I can simply eliminate chronic causes. My goal isn’t to remove all the causes; That’d be a stoopid plan. But sometimes a pain in my foot is simply caused by a stone in my shoe, and is easily removed.

Those could be summarized as, “reminding myself, and taking note.” Those two things are always possible, and always easy. The hard part is remembering to do them. But if I simply—as in: gently, and with self-kindness—do those two things when I do remember, they slowly become habitual. I can’t say I even understand what, “…just right,” would be. But I know for sure what, “just right,” is not.

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Get a move on

Do what nature demands. Get a move on—if you have it in you—and don’t worry whether anyone will give you credit for it. And don’t go expecting Plato’s Republic; be satisfied with even the smallest progress, and treat the outcome of it all as unimportant.

~ Marcus Aurelius

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Community with Tania Marien

How can community spaces be designed to encourage meaningful engagement and participation rather than passive consumption?

Creating active engagement within a community proves to be far more challenging than simply gathering members.

With the community, I am trying to encourage conversation among independent professionals in the field. Not everyone identifies as an environmental educator yet. There are many people out there who, through their work, connect people with the outdoors. I am trying to connect them and have conversation, and to generate conversation between all of them.

~ Tania Marien (1:10)

The conversation focuses on the challenges of building active, engaged communities, particularly in the context of independent professionals working in environmental education. It highlights the difficulty of moving from asynchronous communication to synchronous, real-time interactions. Efforts to encourage participation often reveal a gap between people who self-identify with a community and those who actively interact within it.

One key theme is the importance of modeling desired behavior to inspire participation. When spaces are provided, such as structured co-working sessions or live interactive events, participants are more likely to engage, yet this still requires intentional facilitation. The discussion also touches on how modern habits shaped by social media influence passive consumption, making it harder to foster real conversation and collaboration.

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You had me at ‘bacon’

One of the central conceits of the “man’s natural state” argument is that if we go back to some point in time, we’ll find it. We’ll finally come across the state of being where man lived totally in harmony with each other and with nature; eating the perfect diet for health, worshipping the correct gods, having sex in the natural and acceptable way. And besides studying religious texts, the tool that’s most frequently employed is the study of ancient, “pre-historic” man and woman. We hope that, by going back far enough, we’ll hit some arbitrary Point of Naturalness. That’s partially the approach used, for example, by the Paleo movement which has become such a popular force in nutrition. We evolved to eat bacon, right?

~ Shane Parrish from, The False Allure of a “Natural State” of Man

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I have avoided—I’ve no idea how—the rabbit hole of, “what is natural [for a human being’s flourishing]?” I have limited time, (I suggest doublechecking, as yours may also be limited,) and I’m really only interested in, “what is best for this human being’s flourishing?” I don’t care if we evolved to eat bacon. I do care how I feel after I eat bacon. …after I eat different types of bacon. …after I consider the monetary cost of buying bacon. …after I assess the environmental cost/footprint of eating bacon. …after I assess the societal aspects of bacon.

Sorry. All this talk of bacon. I lost my train of thought. Oh, right—

For a short span of several decades, I have complete control over my thoughts. At no time do I have absolute control over anything beyond my thoughts. (I have pretty reliable control over many things—movement of my hands for example. But even that control is not absolute. See: Disease, accidents, etc. At any moment, my preferences related to all the things beyond my thoughts, can easily be frustrated.) So the only thing that makes sense is to discover, reflect and then exercise what efficacy I have at any give moment: What do I know? How do I know it? What decision should I make now/today, given what I know? How would I find where my unknown unknowns are?

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Free time?

In his free time, …

~ Shane Parrish, from What Can We Learn From the Prolific Mr. Asimov?

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I mean, I knew Asimov wrote a lot. But it turns out I had no clue how much. I’ve read a bunch of his science fiction back in the day, but I’ve never read any of his other writings, and there’s no way I ever will. And really, that’s ok. Because trying to be a “completist” leads to a lot of wasted time. Instead, a little of this, some of that, a dash of variety, and some spice of life. Festina lente.

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