Happiness – with Matt Phelan

Matt Phelan joins Craig Constantine to explain how he manages to measure happiness without making it a pointless metric and to reveal the profound impact of podcasting on personal connections in the world of employee happiness research.

For 10 years I ran a marketing agency, I know how the world works and getting big names on your podcast is really good […] But then I have to remind myself: The whole point of the podcast, for me, was the discovery of really interesting people […]

~ Matt Phelan, 10:05

Matt Phelan and Craig Constantine lean into podcasting, happiness measurement, and the authenticity of dialogues. Their conversation evolves into a reflection on personal and professional paths, transcending the mechanics of podcasting to highlight the emotional bonds it can create.

Matt shares his experience with his podcast, “Happiness and Humans,” stressing the critical view that happiness shouldn’t be reduced to a quantifiable metric, as it risks losing its essence. He reflects on his decade-long journey, concluding that failing to align himself with the natural energy flow resulted in significant time lost on unfruitful endeavors. This insight shapes a broader conversation about the importance of surrendering to the flow, influencing his life philosophy and his approach to the podcast.

Further, Matt explains his decision to spotlight insightful, yet possibly overlooked, stories and research over pursuing notable figures, thereby staying true to his podcast’s aim to uncover novel perspectives on employee happiness and well-being.


The importance of authenticity in podcasting — focusing on meaningful conversations rather than chasing high-profile guests enhances the value of the content.

The futility of rigid metrics for happiness — emphasizing that once happiness becomes a target, it loses its significance as a genuine metric.

Following the natural flow — a decade-long reflection revealed the inefficiency of going against the natural current, underscoring the importance of energy alignment in personal and professional endeavors.

Highlighting lesser-known research — choosing to feature insightful stories and research from individuals who may not be widely recognized can uncover unique perspectives on topics like employee happiness.

Emotional connections through podcasting — conversations that dive into personal feelings and experiences can create stronger, more meaningful connections with the audience.

Challenging conventional success metrics in podcasting — success can be more authentically measured by the impact on individuals and the personal connections formed, rather than just viewership or listener counts.

The transformative power of self-reflection — reviewing past actions and decisions, such as the allocation of time and energy, can lead to more effective and fulfilling future endeavors.


Happiness and Humans — Matt Phelan’s podcast exploring themes around happiness in the workplace, featuring insights from various professionals and researchers.

The Happiness Index — Matt’s book, discussed in this episode.

The Happiness Index — A platform and company founded by Matt and his partners, offering tools and services to measure employee engagement and happiness.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewphelan/ — Matt on LinkedIn

Freedom to Be Happy — Matt’s first, self-published book based on insights and data gathered from measuring employee happiness in over a hundred countries.

(Written with help from Chat-GPT.)